Swapnil Arnie
Thanks a lot Tinkoo ji. That is a valuable post. I must say to be achieved. I would request the moderator to form some kind of 'compilation' at the end of every discussion. And your info will be like ... I don't have words to express -- cherry on the cake. Thanks again.
{Oh! I was entered in the discussion now. But as you wish.}
I give up Zeeshan. In Hindi it's called, "maine apne haath khade kar diye".
You won!
Sorry, I am exhausted now.
:-)
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Friends,
SF is a different kettle of fish where the normal conventions of literature may not always be applicable, and certain new artifacts need to be invented.
As CMN je has said science has a very wide horizon with disconnected fields, and even a scientist may not know other domain of sciences.
To write an SF story without explanation of difficult terms or concepts may result in a rather long story, or a story with appeal to limited audience, or an uninteresting story, or a simple story with simple ideas.
In order to overcome various problems, notes may be a good idea.
I would rather like to read a story with complex science in it with notes rather than without notes and missing the pleasure of 'science' in it.
ZZ,
I have a comment only on the '5 elements' idea.
Yes today even a student of 5th or 6th class knows that the five elementsare not 'elements'.
I would clarify that the definition of the word element in the 5 elements is totally different from the modern definition from Chemistry.
The 5 are elements in the sense of that entity which causes an impact on life and nature, good or bad, today e.g. pollution.
If earth is polluted, life will not be healthy, so also for air, water, energy and space. Our rishies saw the importance of keeping people informed about the sanctity of these five elements.
There is long article which I have written on the subject explaining it in detail which has been published in Hindi magazines. The word element in the classical sense has a philosophical justification as well.
Even in English language the word element is used in a non-chemistry sense.
Tinkoo
Some of us love Hal Clement's fiction - & that's about as hard science as you find in any kind of fiction. Always without notes. Occasionally, I need to look up Wikipedia - but that's rare; mostly just common sense works.
Ditto with hard sf works of virtually every writer I've read. And Zeashan is not into hard sf - don't spoil his fiction with notes.
"To write an SF story without explanation of difficult terms or concepts may result in a rather long story": Try locating Hal Clement's short story "Dust Rag". Real hard sf - describes why there is a tenuous atmosphere on moon & how it can be dangerous to the unwary decades before it was verified by NASA. And easily accessible if you studied science in 12th standard. There are any number of other examples.
Also, none of this applies to Zeashan's fiction - he's not into hard sf, & there is even less reason for him to get into notes, infodumps, & such. I've read probably a half dozen of his stories now, including a novel. Never even felt need for extra explanation. I do have occasional issues with his style & pacing - every author has his quirks, but never
with inability to understand his science.
{As CMN je has said science has a very wide horizon with disconnected fields, and even a scientist may not know other domain of sciences. To write an SF story without explanation of difficult terms or concepts may result in a rather long story, or a story with appeal to limited audience, or an uninteresting story, or a simple story with simple ideas. In order to overcome various problems, notes may be a good idea.
I would rather like to read a story with complex science in it with notes rather than without notes and missing the pleasure of 'science' in it.}
There is a curious story by Charles L Harness - "The New Reality" (Thrilling Wonder Stories, December 1950). Basically a take on one of
the ancient views that universe is "maya", as any number of more recent stories also do.
But it has an argument I've not seen elsewhere in modern fiction: universe "is" whatever we currently are capable of imagining!! A rogue scientist in the story is bored with current reality, & has built an apparatus that will force a single photon to slow down - thus breaking a law of nature & forcing a transition to a universe governed with different laws!
{Vishwa Mohan Tiwari wrote: ZZ,I have a comment only on the '5 elements' idea. Yes today even a student of 5th or 6th class knows that the five elements are not 'elements'. I would clarify that the definition of the word element in the 5 elements is totally different from the modern definition from Chemistry. …….. element is used in a non-chemistry sense.}
Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Tinkoo jee wrote,
"Some of us love Hal Clement's fiction - & that's about as hard science
as you find in any kind of fiction. Always without notes. Occasionally,
I need to look up Wikipedia - but that's rare; mostly just common sense
works."
I would dare say that yours {Tinkoo's) is a common sense, certainly for SF, that is uncommon. So please judge from an average SF reader's point. SF is not as popular in India as it is in the West, due to this lack of common knowledge of science.
I think, by and large, we are in agreement. Notes are required only for difficult terms or concepts, that too when the story is not able to or does not care to explain its import.
You do consult Wikipedia or other relevant document when necessary, though rarely. How many of our friends or an average reader do such things? They manage by taking a general idea.
Dr. Arvind Mishra
O.k . A compromise could be reached in permitting short notes and/or glossary for Indian audience in the long sf versions like novelette and novels while short stories could be left free from such dis tractors .
I feel its not an inability on the part of the audience to understand the given text but of an sf writer to be not able to explain the things in the main text itself with the help of dialogues or by other creative means! I personally find the idea of putting supplementary notes in the short stories quite unpalatable !
Swapnil Arnie
I 101% agree with you Arvind ji. Let's forget about text story. What about a radio play or a movie? Will we be giving notes there too as sub titles?
CMN sir, I quite understand your view, but we have to understand it is Fiction. That is a different format all together. The writer already has been given the tool he needs, words and space. "In a lighter note, foot note is the land are of the real estate of fiction where you don't have the perit to build anything". I have never come across any such story where you get foot notes.
And if a writer has to give foot notes then it simply means he is picking a wrong format to share the information. He should rather write an essay on it and not fiction.
I would say in terms of creativity -- text -- fiction is the toughest because you have build internal logic, you have to stay away from the stupidity called coincidence and you also have to be a psychologist to analyse human behaviour so as to create differentiable characters, In addition, there should be an element of emotions, drama and much more. So, it is one of the most refined and complex format of textual entertainment. Footnote is not a solution, Footnote actually has no place in fiction. Michael Crichton, my fav, seemed to have mastered the art, as you can see most of his work is either about computing or biology. In Jurrasic Park or Highly comlicated AirFrame he never used footnote, instead as Arvind Ji suggested, he used the format and tools of fiction -- dialogue -- to explain it.
If a writer thinks that his audience is kids, then he should write stories gauging thier level of understanding. In case of India, I don't think we will have to face that problem. SF movies and novels are quite popular here. As far as Indian SF is concerned it is not popular becaue of several reasons, one being diversity. I am not getting to read SF Lit in other languages. Second being the quality of literature. Third being platform to publish SF is missing except for Vigyan Pragati and Avishkar there are tiny winy magazines whoes target audience is not the one we want. So, we also need a platform here which cal enable Indian SF writers to bring forth their work. But, foot note will not be allowed :-)
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