Sunday, May 3, 2009

A Discussion on SF "Dangai Banjare" at IndianSF Group Part-5

Swapnil Arnie
{Partially you are right. On the other hand collaboration of brains can give results in the form}
{(a) Story can never be completed. It is my solid experience of Mumbai.}
If it doesn't then its not the fault of the group activity, but the lack of sync and desire. Also you did not understood the concept of peer review. By the way this is age of collaboration, GNU/Linux and Free Software is the best example to look up at.
{(b) Story may convert into ‘Choon Choon Ka Murabba’. Like RamGopal Verma ki Aag.}
If you are talking about Mumbai film industry citing examples of those people, I am out of this discussion.
{(c) Story may be too complicated.}
Disagree.
{(d) Story may be converted into a research paper.}
Disagree.

{And some more things, Two topmost writers of India wrote the most Superhit story ‘Sholey’, but see the logic, A high water tank in a village where no electricity found, without explanation how the water reaches to the tank.}
I won't comment. But there are 1000 of mechanical ways to do that. But, despite being an educated man, I can not comment on the intelligence level of those writers. And I don't think Sholey is the example to be given in context of SF stories.
{The one of the topmost science fiction ‘The fifth element’ violates basic concept of element. Today a lower class student knows too that water, fire, air, earth and human none is the element.}
That is another Hollywood flick and NOT a true science fiction. Another wrong example picked by you.
{In any James Bond film many solid brains jointly create illogical sequence of actions.}
What do you mean by that?

Zeeshan, I appreciate your explanations but the approach that "if they can be wrong, what's the harm in me doing wrong" is not creative, its defensive. I can cite many more factual errors in those stupid movies, but that doesn't prove anything. I would have loved if you had pointed errors in works of Clarke, Asimov or Micheal Crichton...well there are many more good writers.
But, alas, you did not.
I don't think this discussion can take any productive direction now onwards. So, end of the discussion from my side. Over to others.

Just forgot to add about the Fifth Element thing. It had more to do with philosophy than chemistry. And I guess most of the civilisations have, in one form or the other the concept of five element. At least I know the concept of Indian civilisation :-) What is it called "Panch Tatwa" or sonething? VMT ji or Arvind ji may throw light on this.
Good night

Dr. Arvind Mishra
My respectful thanks to all who enthusiastically participated in discussion on the story of Zeashan written on a dare /challenge and no doubt it was a very satiating experience.Not only it delved deep into the story and put forth an excellent critique but it also encompassed many other relevant and even some not apparently associated aspects like the inept and callous bureaucracy ( even forgetting for a moment that the hapless moderator also belongs to the tainted group !).
Now please permit me to conclude this beautiful discussion with the element part as indicated by Swapanil.-KSHITI JAL PAAWK GAGAN SAMEEERA PANCHBHOOT YAH ADHAM SAREERAA ( this mortal ill fated body is made from a composition of five- the earth ,water,fire, wind and space-a reality which every body must not forget ! because it has to get decomposed in these parts only some day ! )
Thanks again !

Zeashan Zaidi
{Also you did not understood the concept of peer review. By the way this is age of collaboration, GNU/Linux and Free Software is the best example to look up at.}
Free Softwares etc are the researches not the stories. And you already agree that story should not be converted into research paper.
{And I don't think Sholey is the example to be given in context of SF stories.}
I thought you are talking about stories, not the SF stories. I personally expect that a SF reader have so strong commonsense that many unexplained things he understands.
{That is another Hollywood flick and NOT a true science fiction. Another wrong example picked by you.}
Btw what is the definition of true SF?
{I would have loved if you had pointed errors in works of Clarke,Asimov or Micheal Crichton}
And all these were written their stories individually.

{end of the discussion from my side.}
Oh! I was entered in the discussion now. But as you wish.


Tinkoo
Swapnil Bhartiya wrote:
{but that doesn't prove anything. I would have loved if you had pointed errors in works of Clarke, Asimov or Micheal Crichton...well there are many more good writers.}
I personally happen to have read over a half-dozen novels of Arthur Clarke that carry a coauthor on cover, apart from virtually every story he wrote alone - short or long. My older site - "http://arthur-clarke-fansite.blogspot.com/" - is dedicated entirely to his works. Here is food for thought from his collaborative works.
Every one of them is written by the other author - one that appears in small font on the cover. They might have discussed the outline, Clarke might even have provided the outline - but these works are really of a single author - one that appears in smaller font. Clarke's name in big letters on cover helps ensure you will pick up the book in stores; that's the only use of his name on cover.
Oh yes - and the oft cited collaboration of "2001 A Space Odyssey" with that movie maker. Novel version was written alone, by Clarke. Clarke talks in detail on this collaboration - movie + novel + associated short stories (there were several) - in _The Lost Worlds of 2001_.
Asimov did a 25-book collaboration with Martin Greenberg - anthology series called "Isaac Asimov Presents Great SF Stories". I've read at least a few stories from most of these books. Every story carries headnotes - usually 2 of them per story, one by each editor. Asimov makes it very clear that selections are entirely of Greenberg. He doesn't explicitly state his own contributions, apart from supplying very interesting nuggets in headnotes - but I suspect it has to do with his name appearing in big font on cover - something that will make you pick them up in store.
Several authors have written works in Asimov's fictional universes. I've read most of those set in Foundation universe, plus the 3 Caliban books set on one of the Spacer worlds by Roger McBride Allen. Every one of these is an individual's work - usually with permission of Asimov or his
wife, & presumably with a royalty agreement.
None of the half dozen odd novels of Crichton I've read are collaborations - so I'm not qualified to comment on his collaborative works, if there are any.
Probably the most interesting collaboration in sf field is of Henry Kuttner & his wife C L Moore. Together they produced some of the most important stories of the genre. It is said that when one left a story at the end of some sentence, other could simply pick up & write on! Even here, I can often make out the portions of Moore - she has a tendency to use lyrical & poetic language. But they are the only couple I know who produced first rate fiction together with very intimate collaboration - but they were man & wife, spent all their time together, & probably understood each other too well - combination hard to find normally.