A Discussion on SF "Dangai Banjare" at IndianSF Group Part-4

Swapnil Arnie
{Please do not restrict the discussion so long as it adds to our knowledge in the right environment and spirit.}
I would request the same. The points cleared by Res Bimal ji have removed many doubts and confusions related to a very very sensitive issue. And these issues form the basis or direction of any story. So, sir please allow us to discussed such issues as well.

Gene van Troyer
{But, I don't know, what could be the solution for that.}
I believe the solution is that if such transiting flights leave their corridors, they are told to get back on course, fighter escorts are sent up to encourage compliance, and if that fails, the offending craft is shot down. A dramatic example of this happend a few years ago with a commercial Korean Airlines 747 that strayed into Soviet airspace enroute to Japan. It was a horrid mistake in judgment and verification procedures were somewhat changed to help avoid a repeat, but the lesson is nevertheless clear.
Countries can reduce the attractiveness of overflight corridors by keeping them over unattractive targets.
I should also like to note that none of the World Trade Center aircraft were traniting flights, but were all domestic flights that struck their targets almost immediately after take-off in the case of NYC, or inbound for landing in the case of the Pentagon strike. The plane thought to be bound for the White House was stopped by its passengers, and perhaps it was the only one of the four that could have otherwise been stopped by air defenses.
Cheers,


Zeashan Zaidi
Right. The reason is not that you will give inferior suggestions, but because story will lose its originality. I believe that if I take help from someone then my story is not mine.
In case if you translate it, you can take 5% independence ( The basic rule of statistics)

Dr. Arvind Mishra
Yes Gene it seems to be only right way to with deal with a suspected transiting flight making a de -tour ! Thanks !

Bimal Srivastava
Thank you very much Tiwari Ji, Swapnil Ji, Arving Ji and Gene van Troyer Ji.
I may just add one point for clarification that normally aircraft paths are tracked through enroute Radars. However, in case the aircraft flies low, or in case the Radar Coverage is not perfect, some times it may not be possible to keep the track all along.
In case of Korean Airline B747, which was shot down in Russia, the aircraft was flying at a very high altitude (Cruising level) and was kept under continuous vigil by Russians. On the other hand, Russian Govt. was bitterly criticized by West for shooting down a huge airliner with full load of innocent passengers including children & woman, as they claimed that the path diversion of the aircraft was due to malfunction of its navigational equipment, and the attack by Russians amounted to cold blood murder of innocent travellers.

Swapnil Arnie
Very true. But creativity grows with combined mind. But it works only with those who have that kind of mind set. A fiction writer never allows intervention. However on the other hand, I always get my stories peer reviewed by my friends and may include the changes if I like them. A writer may draft a plot but can never have a 360 degree view, so that is a must to get stories peer reviewed. But, may be that is my way of working, One thing I have learnt is collaborative brains achieve much more than an individual one.

{The tragedy is that the 'workable' solution doesn't always work! I don't mean it to become the childhood excercise when one sits with book in one hand and dictionary in another. But If the explanatory note is not appearing in the main text and the reader is informed that asteresik suggests looking up the footnote, if needed, it will not hinder the flow. It is one of the solutions and I would not be repelled by it in stories.}
CMN Sir,
Let's start by asking, Why do we need foot notes in a fiction? In Zeeshan's case a lot of explanation was missing, which needed to be explained. here foot note format will not work. Otherwise, there will be a kind of parallel story running in the foot note itself.
In case of giving definition of stuff like asteroid, I don't think a writer needs to give a definition. We always have a target audience in mind for which we write a fiction and we also know the knowledge level of that audience. The person should go ahead an do his research. This is back-ground information.
Here the thing in question was something Gene once mentioned, 'internal-logic' So, what I would do is give every possible information through the story itself. What else is story for if not sharing information in a format called fiction? If a writer needs help of other formats that simply means the creativity is lacking something.


Dr. Arvind Mishra
I agree ,Swapnil !

Dr. C.M.Nautiyal
Dear Swapnil,
You are right that in this particular instance, there may be loose threads and it's not that which I propose in the footnotes. The events are not to be explained by foototes or directly such as by a sootradhar (unless absolutely inevitable) but by elaborating situations. The footnotes may not be interconnected. If they were not disjointed, they could as well form part of the main story. So more like subroutines to be used when required.
The readership may not be having a broad background in all sciences. With specialisations increasing, it is not uncommon to come across terms/ phenomena etc. which may be unfamilair. A reader may not like to go around searching for the correct book of his/ her level where he can find the desired meaning, that too when reading a story. Author is in a good position to judge the general level requirement of reader. Footnotes will not add up to a story. These will be explanations (not necessarily interconnected) , and not of the situation (which the author is supposed to do in the main story- text).
In short, if I am reading a sci-fi and find a term of medical science, say, a fare disease or a rare physical phenonon, critical to understand the plot; it's best done in the main text. But if it's a term which may be understandable to many, but not to some, it may be explained in the footnote. Too many detailed explanations in the main text may distract many readers.

Reema Sarwal
Dear Everyone,
While I'm glad that my statement that "Authorities notice nothing" has led to this interesting discussion on an important matter of security, I must clarify that I had not meant the statement literally. I had meant that they don't notice anything on purpose. The reasons can range from bribery (as Swapnil ji pointed out in the case of unauthorised colonies), vested political interests, outdated laws that are no longer suitable in present-day conditions and ground realities, insufficient means and power given to those who are supposed to see to it that rules are followed (and I think this is as big a problem, if not bigger, than bribery), or sometimes plain apathy as the matter is thought to be too insignificant to look into, especially because there is so much else to do as well.
I did not go into all this when I made the initial statement because 1) I hadn't expected to be taken so literally (my fault) and 2) I did not think it mattered to the story in discussion whether the authorities allowed the construction of the lab knowingly or unknowingly - the point was that it was very believable that they would allow it.

Swapnil ji and Zeashan ji,
{Let's start by asking, Why do we need foot notes in a fiction? In Zeeshan's case a lot of explanation was missing, which needed to be explained. here foot note format will not work. Otherwise, there will be a kind of parallel story running in the foot note itself. }

{In case of giving definition of stuff like asteroid, I don't think a writer needs to give a definition. We always have a target audience in mind for which we write a fiction and we also know the knowledge level of that audience. The person should go ahead an do his research. This is back-ground information. }

{Here the thing in question was something Gene once mentioned, 'internal-logic' So, what I would do is give every possible information through the story itself. What else is story for if not sharing information in a format called fiction? If a writer needs help of other formats that simply means the creativity is lacking something.}

I would completely agree to that. In the case of Zeashan ji, I would here like to move beyond this particular story. I'm a fan of Zeashan ji's writing-style because of the combination of the genres of sf and murder mystery (there is always a detective figure, and often a Watson figure too in the stories); the racy narratives, settings, and raising of vital issues concerning our contemporary society. All this makes for an interesting read. But there is always a lack of detail, often details that leave the reader unsatisfied (probably sacrificed to maintain the raciness but a better balance could be achieved), an over-reliance on certain stereotypes and cliches (much more so in other stories like "underestimate" and the first one in the "professor monkey" collection, than in "dangai banjare") in order to get the plot into action quickly and not to waste much time on sketching out the character; and finally, although quite significant issues are raised, they are not really engaged with fully or in much depth (but this is not always a bad thing as it might force the reader to think on the issue itself rather than the story).
As far as the question of details in concerned, while they cannot be provided in footnotes, there are several other things to take into account. The stories read more like screenplays, like every story is imagined as a sequence of "scenes," and not as a story to be read leisurely. If the target audience is teen aged boys, young readers new to sf, and readers who are put off by anything longer than 10-15 pages, then this might work just fine. But to leave a deeper impression with the larger audience, it is essential that some issues are dealt with in more depth. I personally feel that if Zeashan ji achieves that, there is nothing to stop him from becoming the finest authors of Indian sf. Now all depends on the aim of Zeashan ji in writing the stories, his own convictions, and past feedback from his regular readers (and I must add, readers who have paid to read). Unless the writer is convinced that a change is needed in his writing strategy, a reviewer or editor cannot do anything. Especially if the writer feels that the loyal and target audience would be lost by making that change.

Zeashan Zaidi
Partially you are right. On the other hand collaboration of brains can give results in the form
(a) Story can never be completed. It is my solid experience of Mumbai.
(b) Story may convert into ‘Choon Choon Ka Murabba’. Like RamGopal Verma ki Aag.
(c) Story may be too complicated.
(d) Story may be converted into a research paper.
And some more things, Two topmost writers of India wrote the most Superhit story ‘Sholey’, but see the logic, A high water tank in a village where no electricity found, without explanation how the water reaches to the tank.
The one of the topmost science fiction ‘The fifth element’ violates basic concept of element. Today a lower class student knows too that water, fire, air, earth and human none is the element.
In any James Bond film many solid brains jointly create illogical sequence of actions.