Hot Discussion on the story "Under Estimate" Part-2

Dr. Arvind Mishra
Ha Ha Ha ..... How funny !even the story entitled under estimate faces an under estimation.insults to injury ?
This is SIMPLY INJUSTICE !
It surely needs a reappraisal!

Swapnil Bhartiya
Dear Zeeshan,
It was not a cursory read. I actually took out one hour from my busy schedule and read it. I was not comfortable with commenting on it but I did.
So, please don't think I did not read it thoroughly.
Arvind Ji: Appraisal from whom, Zeeshan or me?

Dr. Arvind Mishra
Obviously by Zeashan on your rejoinder !

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Dear ZZ
Sorry to say there is a strong violation of physical laws as known today.
Induction is dynamic phenomenon.
It cannot be stored into a 'socalled MICRO body'. If stored it would cease to be dynamic chich means a continuous coonectivity with the source . Further it follows inverse 4th power law, not inverse square law, resulting into heavy loss of signal with distance.
Induction does generate an opposing force, a fact you have utilized very well.

Zeashan Zaidi
VMT Ji,
The story never said that induction “stored” into the Micro Body, but it said that the body is controlled by the induction phenomenon. And that micro body was created only when a person goes into a generating machine. That is rule of continuous connectivity never be violated.
Secondly since there is a mediator machine between the source and the micro body so there is no question of 4th power law or inverse square law.

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Z Z g
You said, " And that micro body was created only when a person goes into a generating machine".
Here creation of a micro body has been stated which as per my understanding needs the qualities of a different person to be ingrained, characerestics to be given, past historical info needs to be given etc.
I had said as a story it is catchy and interesting except that it is closer to sci fantasy than to SF.
Do you disagree with this statemnent?
Best wishes
vmt

Zeashan Zaidi
VMT Ji,
Good day in USA
This time we can say it is closer to science fantasy. But it is my forecast that within 20 years, the human will be able to create his own micro body.

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Z gee
Wish yopu all the best with your prophesy, I will be very happy to see it coming true.

Dr. Arvind Dubey
Respected VMT Ji and ZZ ji
May I interrupt u sirs, not twenty years from now, its in front of u . Pof Yamanaka from Quoto university in Japan has done it. He introduced four transcription factors in a normal cell of adult mice to convert it into an adult pleuripotant cell, I mean a cell which can create a whole animal. What are these adult pleuripotant cells, of course a micro body. If y any means it can be transported to longer distances, Zishan’s prophecy turns into a reality. However his perception of micro body is different from this, so what, Jules Burne was also having a different perception for the voyage to the moon. which later turned into the reality later on. Well done Zishan, congratulations.

Here is the original news
Shinya Yamanaka Reprograms Human Adult Cells
Into Embryonic-like Stem Cells
Breakthrough accelerates new avenues of stem cell research
SAN FRANCISCO, CA – November 20, 2007 – Acclaimed stem cell researcher Shinya Yamanaka, MD, PhD, has reported that he and his Kyoto University colleagues have successfully reprogrammed human adult cells to function like pluripotent embryonic stem cells. Because it circumvents much of the controversy and restrictions regarding generation of embryonic stem cells from human embryos, this breakthrough, reported in the journal Cell, should accelerate the pace of stem cell research.
Last year, Yamanaka, who is also a senior investigator at the Gladstone Institute of Cardiovascular Disease (GICD), reported that he and his Kyoto colleagues had reprogrammed mouse skin cells into pluripotent stem cells, laying the foundation to apply this methodology in human cells.
In this earlier work, published in Cell, Yamanaka and his colleagues identified four genetic factors that resulted in the reprogramming of adult mouse cells into induced pluripotent stem (iPS) cells capable of developing into any kind of cell. This summer, he reported in Nature that these iPS cells could even form a new mouse, making them functionally the same as embyonic stem cells. According to the new research, those same genetic factors used with human adult cells resulted in iPS cells which are nearly indistinguishable from human embryonic stem cells.
“The rapid application of this approach to human cells has dramatically changed the landscape of stem cell science,” said GICD Director Deepak Srivastava, MD. “Dr. Yamanaka's work is monumental in its importance to the field of stem cell science and its potential impact on our ability to accelerate the benefits of this technology to the bedside. Not only does this discovery enable more research, it offers a new pathway to apply the benefits of stem cells to human disease.”
“Dr. Yamanaka and his group have made yet another extremely important contribution to the stem cell field,” said Richard Murphy, interim president of the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine (CIRM). “Their results open the door to generating alternative sources of pluripotent cells from patients, which is a major step forward. However, much work still needs to be done to fully characterize and understand the capacity of these induced pluripotent cells to study and to treat human diseases.”
While Yamanaka's work would seem to eliminate the need for controversial research on human embryos, both he and Srivastava emphasized that research must continue. “We are still a long way from finding cures or therapies from stem cells and we don’t know what processes will be effective,” Yamanaka said.
CIRM's Murphy added, “Dr. Yamanaka's work, which uses viral vectors to introduce into cells pluripotency- associated genes, further emphasizes the critical need we have to continue working with naturally occurring human embryonic stem cells, which remain the gold standard against which all alternative sources of human pluripotent stem cells must be tested.”
According to Yamanaka, the next steps will be to understand how these cells can be differentiated into other types of cells and ultimately how they can be used to study disease models and as potential therapies. “We are now finally in a position to make patient-specific stem cells for therapies without fear of immune-rejection and to make disease-specific stem cells that will reveal the underlying cause of many human diseases” he said.
Prof Shinya Yamanaka

Hot Discussion on the story "Under Estimate" Part-1

Dr. Arvind Mishra
Under Estimate
The above captioned science fantasy of Zeashan is an attempt to rationalize whether a man could leave its body and travel beyond in its 'energy' form ? Such descriptions could be found in many of our scriptures where sages have been shown to possess this amazing power of leaving temporarily their bodies as and when required to meet some noble causes and then return /enter back to/into their original bodies.They have also been shown to even occupy some other vacant [dead] bodies when such needs arise. Termed as 'Parkayaa Pravesh'[entering the other body] this phenomenon of our folklores have fascinated us since long.
Now here is a science fantasy on it ! A daring task accepted and successfully carried out by Zeashan.
Good work Zeashan.Keep it up !
Gene, please tell if you remember any story on similar concept in western sf ?

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
Z zee,
This story has got storyness all right but totally incredible to my science trained mind.
You have got a forcefull style, but not enough science in the story.

Zeashan Zaidi
to VMT Ji,
Thank you for comments.
"When a distinguished but elderly scientist states that something is possible, he is almost certainly right. When he states that something is impossible, he is very probably wrong. "
Arthur C. Clarke,

Swapnil Bhartiya
The UnderEstimate
1. Plot is very loose and cliche...an Indian scientist developing a
machine...the conversation is also not that matured...
2. Deneil wearing a shirtless tie and etc....not that matured....
3. I am not a physist, yet, that was a weak interpretation of electric
current and converting it to create micro body.
4. And there are amny weak points...how could the be interacting with
teh micro body where Deniel says that the point of light anand was
looking at were actually being viewed by the Micro Body, how would Anand
interact with his own Micro body.
5. And while Anand was not able to touch those point how come Gautan
took control and went out of the room.
6. The entire concept of Neha's electric charge fighting with Gautam
doesnt make any sense....
7....
8.....
9....
10.....

So, I would not rate that as a very good story in terms of 'fiction',
'technically' or logically.

I would go by VMT's view.

Also, VMT ji didn't say it's impossible to counter which ZZ quoted
Clarke. This story is not about making impossible possible, this story
is about making some sense, which it seems to not make, at least for
me...

And people say, I can be wrong.

Vishwa Mohan Tiwari
I need to clarify what I meant. I didn't say what you have stated is impossible,
I said it lacks credibility, in the sense the phenomenon of induction has been stretched beyond the known limits of science , I may say to the level of fantasy.
Your story may be a science fantasy but not science fiction.
I would be very happy if I turnout to be WRONG.
I could have kept Quiet or praised it to the sky, but I felt the truth must be spoken, of course truth as I perceive it.
I am sorry if I have offended you.
Dr. Arvind Mishra
to VMT JI,
Your stand is loud and clear.....Z's story is fantastic
regards,

Zeashan Zaidi
to VMT Ji,
I am agreeing with you. Of course, my concept is beyond the current limit of science. But as the main motive of science fiction is to look upon future possibilities based on present scientific discoveries, and the story fulfils this condition.
My question is, 'is there any violation of present scientific concepts in the story?’ If ‘not’ then it is a science fiction.

Zeashan Zaidi
Dear Swapnil,
Some of your points of objection are regarding style of the story. Therefore no comment.
And other objections are not actually lying in the story. So avoid cursory reading and study again.
This is actually your under estimation about the story.